Carer budget care plan outcome issues

Budgets
1

I have been an sds option 1 employer for many years now however the last few have been a nightmare at times due to a certain LA finance employee allocated to our budgets. Until recently I never had a carer budget via assessment but do now, I was under the impression you could accumulate and use said carer budget throughout the financial year as long as the Carer plan outcomes were being met?

However this Finance employee told me NO, althought on mine it stated respite breaks, I had to argue with this finance employee it was an agreed outcome, this means paying our PA’s to be in the property overnight on a sleeping basis using the carer budget to pay an overnight allowance and to top up the daytime hours to allow us to have a few nights/days respite break at times. This was all agreed with social work, finance is being the dictator to their own rules, rules which neither myself or social work can figure out. I manage my budget, a family members and my carer budget. So theres times I may also need a PA with me on respite breaks too.(finance hasnt thought that 1 through either)

SW had a meeting with finance and then I recieved an email from finance stating to tell them how much figure wise it would be to cover a week worth of respite break including overnight allowance. Finance are adamant on clawing back carer budget funds every few months if unspent, how is that flexible option? Im all for at the end of the financial year end of march into april when they do the big audits then yes take back any unspent, but I dont think it should be done during the financial budget year making me unable to have any flexability on my carer plan outcomes, therefore the carer plan and budget due to finance dictating their own rules is not fit for purpose!

This 1 from finance suddenly a few years ago(mainly with unspent due to covid) clawed back but was aso going to take my contributions to care plus their own funds, even my care manager didnt think it was right. I didnt take that lying down so now after I kicked up holy hell, when they grab back underspend I am authorised to take back mine too.

As a carer often I just have to take the opportunity short notice when we have no appointments and PA’s have no commitments to cover me overnights, not many carers I know can plan months ahead for a respite break and stick to it. Also why should I be restricted to a weeks worth over a whole year, thats not even half the allocated carer budget or fulfilling the outcomes. Last few years with this finance person ive been so close to telling them all where to shove the budgets, nevermind recruitment issues etc between a longterm employee moving on and trying to get consistent staff.

Anyone else had similar issues, where do we stand? Am I right in thinking its fair to grab back unspent end of financial year but not during where carer plan outcomes would be in jeopardy of not being met thus making it not fit for purpose with almost zero flexibility!

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2

Hi there,
Thanks for your post and welcome to the SDS Forum.

I’m sorry to hear about the difficulties you’ve been having. A lot of the information that helps to guide good practise can be found in:

These resources are the place I would start if I had a question about SDS.
Maybe I can take each point you’ve highlighted one at a time:

1) Unspent funds:
There is mention of underspent budgets and any repayment in the SDS Statutory Guidance. This states:

‘‘Where Local Authorities or Health and Social Care Partnerships have concerns about underspend of allocated budgets, these should be reconciled in line with local contractual arrangements only after efforts have been made to establish – with the supported person, unpaid carer and the social worker – the reasons for the underspend.’’ (p.57)

In the SDS Standards it states:

''Standard 12.1: ‘‘Make finance processes as transparent and easy to use as possible so that
children, young people, families, supported people and carers are as fully informed as possible.’’ (p.32)

Standard 12.3: ‘‘Personal budgets can be spent in any way that is legal and that is related to
meeting agreed personal outcomes.’’ (p.32)

Standard 12.4: ‘‘Social work practitioners should encourage and support people to think creatively and flexibly in how their budgets can be spent.’’ (p.32)

‘‘People can be flexible about spending different amounts of money each week and at different times of the year, within agreed limits.’’ (p.32)

‘‘Systems should support flexible spending.’’ (p.32)

Standard 12.5: ‘‘Re-coupment from a person’s budget should not be undertaken without the
person being consulted, potentially through a review or reassessment. This should take account of bills yet to be paid, or challenges recruiting personal assistants or securing provider support
services.’’ (p.33)

Standard 12.7: ‘‘Leaders create and support collaborative working relationships between social
work and professionals in finance, audit, legal, commissioning and procurement to achieve mutual understanding of the roles and responsibilities each has to ensure that people have choice and flexibility in using their budgets.’’ (p.33)

Each Local Authority might take slightly different approaches to the re-coupment of funds. However, if there is likely to be varying costs from month to month, it might be more challenging to recoup money on a monthly basis.

Hopefully this gives you a clearer idea of what you can expect when it come to discussions about the use of your SDS budget, especially in relation to the flexibility that you might need to exercise.

2) Financial Monitoring:
The SDS Statutory Guidance also has a section that refers to financial monitoring. This states:

‘‘The authority should consider the relevant Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA) guidance on financial monitoring of direct payments. The CIPFA guidance provides advice on efficient, effective and proportionate monitoring arrangements, focused on outcomes and, crucially, with as light a touch as possible.’’ (p.56)

**3) Further support with SDS in your area:
The Scottish Government fund an organisation to provide Independent SDS Information and Support in every Local Authority area in Scotland. If you’re not already connected to your local service, you can do a search for them using our ‘Find Help’ database here.

Alternatively, if you let me know which area you live in I can pass on the right contact details for you.

I hope that helps but do come back to me if there’s anything else that I can do.

Many thanks,

Mark

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Hi thanks for that, ive actually quoted it as it seems finance are not following any of it and suiting themselves. I wasnt consulted on the grab back just told it was happening and they expected my payroll company to send the funds back asap. Id had employee issues and then lack of and then needed time to train new staff, thats also covered in the standard so if finance had of followed it and asked why they would have realised. They have also grabbed a load back from our DP budgets too not just the carers for this time.

Hopefully I can get it sorted and have tried contacting the place who gives my sds options support to see what they say too. I certainly am not giving in easy when it looks like they are not following the above government standard in the sections you quoted.

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Hi there,
Many thanks for the reply.

It would be really interesting to hear how you got on and if you were able to get some resolution to your concerns, as well as an agreement about ‘proportionate’ monitoring and reconciliation in the future.

There is also some guidance that was issued by an organisation called the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA). In their publication titled:

‘Self Directed Support, Part II: Resource Implications of SDS: Management Considerations’, they stated:

''Financial monitoring should be proportionate to enable the service monitoring to focus upon the service outcomes.
65. The following general principles that are applicable to direct payments20 are also applicable to the use of the relevant amount under each of the SDS options:

  • The assurance of individual independence and choice by the supported person balanced with
    evidence of personal responsibility. It is reasonable to ask a supported person to account for
    their decisions in using the relevant amount to achieve their support plan outcomes.

  • Financial monitoring arrangements should be proportionate to the level of risk involved.

  • Local authorities can set a local de minimis levels regarding the level of evidence required.

  • Flexibility, within clear boundaries, to use the relevant amount creatively in ways which reflect
    agreed outcomes.‘’ (p.20)

It also states:
‘‘79. Any proposed termination or reclaim of payments should only be carried out with reference to the assessment and whether agreed outcomes are being met. Any such action should be taken with co-ordination between social care and finance staff, in the event that a balance is being accrued for planned expenditure (e.g. respite care).’’ (p.23)

I hope that helps.

Many thanks,

Mark

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Hi @Spearmint,

It sounds like the finance dept. need a lesson in the principles of SDS, but unfortunately they probably don’t see that as their role…

I work at a Carers Centre and totally understand your need for flexibility with your respite budget. In Perth and Kinross, carers can be given a direct payment for regular respite (equivalent to a certain number of hours per week), or a one-off ‘flexi-respite’ payment that can be used as required across 12 months (equivalent to up to 28 days overnight respite). The later option is increasingly popular with unpaid carers, in my experience, and it sounds like this may be what you are looking for from your budget. How often are you paid by your LA? Could there be an option to annualise your payments into a single respite budget?

Even with regular respite payments, carers here are advised that they can ‘bank’ unused hours and this appears to be fairly flexible, although there is probably a point when it would be questioned. The Direct Payment agreement states “Direct Payments can also be used for respite care, provided that each period of respite care is four weeks or less.”

As with all things SDS and social care, your options will depend on how your LA administers SDS funding. Unfortunately, the SDS guidance doesn’t tell LAs how to do this, so it is a real mixed bag across the country. The question of clawing back underspent budgets is a popular topic on here - and there are plenty LAs that are quite strict on this - but there really is no consensus on how this should be done, as far as am I aware. Maybe it’s a topic that needs looked into as it clearly causes a lot of unnecessary stress @MarkieBoy @DonnaMurray?

It’s good that you have contacted your local SDS organisation. If there is a local Carers Centre you could get in touch with them as well. A complaint to the LA might not get you anywhere, but it can sometimes be a worthwhile action to take nonetheless. It might be worth raising the issue via a local councillor or MSP, as SDS practice needs to be scrutinised locally and nationally. It may also be the sort of issue that Civil Rights First would be able to offer advice on: Civil Rights First

I hope there’s something useful in all that.

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Hi thanks. Here it seems a little different in the carer plan budget, I recieved the breakdown for weekly, monthly and annual amounts so you would expect as its calculated in that way we have the annual flexability etc, then grab back once a year if any unused. Finance didnt even consult me or SW, finance just lettered my payroll company and cc’d me technically requesting xxxx amounts back from all budgets. No asking why its unspent, nothing, not even asking if Id need any of it in the interim as I had a whole team of brand new to us staff, I have to train myself and get to shadow each other at times until they settle in.You arent far from my county tbh we are more east.

Ill have to think about the whole msp thing etc we arent really blessed with with ours is tbh from past experiences. Its ridiculous we have stress on top of stress being disabled, stress being a carer alongside x 2 in my case, then theres all the responsibilities as a guardian, employer etc then them pulling all this crud!

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I’m so sorry to hear that you are having these difficulties. This sounds awful but sadly something that a lot of carers experience. Some LA’s seem to have zero regard for the guidance and regulations. I’ve had a dreadful time with our LA and similar issues with finance. There has been very little consideration given to the needs and outcomes when finance have refused to make agreed payments or have taken funds back, which they have said are surplus. Accumulated funds are not surplus funds and you should, according to SDS regulations and guidance, have full control of your budget, be involved in decisions regarding your budget and be able to use it flexibly and creatively to meet your identified outcomes. You can make a complaint to the LA and if you are not satisfied with the outcome, you can take it further to the public services ombudsman. There are services that can help you such as advocacy. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution, I think it is totally unacceptable that LA’s get away with doing this to people that are in need of their SDS budgets and it undervalues their right to be fully in control of their support and how their outcomes are met. I would be very interested to know if there is any governing body that regulates how LA’s are administering SDS . They seem to be able to do what they like.

2 Likes
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You would think there would be, seems theres no accountability and from experience of other departments in my LA this lot are a law unto themselves. You could say its not my 1st rodeo in any way shape or form with more than 1 department under this lot. Try getting anywhere legal to take them on too, seems they are untouchable! Even their own ex employees struggle to have them held accountable! There is no transparency with this lot! We are expected to be transparent though and let them invade our lives etc and the difference between SW care managers is unbelievable as to how invasive to family life privavcy rights. 1 who is happy as long as your goals are met and independance promoted with your sds budget and another who is out for visits every other week etc, scrutinising our every move not letting us live and breathe without feeling intimidated, scared we put a foot wrong in their eyes.

I had experience of sds before it was introduced up here from elsewhere so know how it should work, 1 of the SW managers didnt like that back in the day, didnt know there were so many controlling narc types within the social care sector and related depts at all levels! Yet they wrongly accuse many carers of munchausens or its newer term fabricated illness etc. Just for fighting for whats best for our loved ones and their basic rights! Seems the normal stance when their duty of care might come into question, deflect blame onto families! Euuugh the battle goes on I guess!

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I have a long experience with SDS as a client on behalf of my adult “child” The latest news which i have been told is that LA is reclaiming the unspend funds on regular intervals because it is public money. (Like we did not know it)
Saying that I have been given flexibility i have not known before in the remit of outcomes. I have no complaints — the LA has been helpful and is allowing
with their aproval to spend the unspend money on the account on goods my adult “child” needs.
We always had problems recruiting and have been without help long periods of time. Funds are there for 5 days a week but we only managing to fill 4 days sometimes 3 days. My child has complex needs and not everyone is able to cope with it. I have huge problem to recruit the appropriate staff.

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Hi thanks, im more meaning the Carer budget on the outcome of a carers assessment not a personal care budget we get to use for the persons support needs. Basically the 1 I get to use to have respite from my caring role.

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Thank you— i have not had a carers budget - did not even know it existed. May I ask what else is included in Carers budget? apart from respite for the carer? and the cared for person?

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Ask for a carers assessment from your cared for persons social worker. All outcomes are personal and agreed with the SW, usually carers ones are focussed on short breaks and respite as far as im aware.

Do you know about a company called Carefree, they are donated 1-2 night breaks from hospitality businesses usually brekkie thrown in, so you can have a break away from your caring role, you can take someone with you except the cared for person and you pay just a small admin fee to secure your booking. Some places offer upgrades to your carer break at your expense if you contact them direct after booking is confirmed, ive upgraded to a lovely suite a few times in the past for a small upgrade amount.

They used to be called Carefree Breaks.

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Thank you for the information

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@julinka

A carer’s budget is typically used for respite, but can be for other things too, if there are needs that cannot be met otherwise. There’s useful info in the SDS Handbook here: Carer’s budget for support - The SDS HandbookThe SDS Handbook

Also here: ‘Accessing Self-directed Support as a carer’ 80643-What-to-Expect-SDS-Leaflet.pdf

There are several national schemes for carers, including the Time2Live fund, which can also be used flexibly to meet wellbeing outcomes for carers: Time to Live | Shared Care Scotland

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So just to update, dont give in to their antics guys. Keep fighting, for now im sorted. I expect certain parties might be chewing wasps atm lol but its no less than the stress they add to us unnecessarily!

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16

Thank you for the information aboht Carers budget.
LA has not told me about Carers budget.
Many thanks

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