That would be great Mark.
My LA is North Lanarkshire.
Thankyou for your help.
Laura
Hi Laura,
The local Independent SDS Information and Support service available to you in North Lanarkshire is:
Take Control North Lanarkshire
Office 14
1 Chapel Lane
Airdrie Business Centre
Airdrie
North Lanarkshire
ML6 6GX
Tel: (01698) 537472
Email: infonl@takectrl.org.uk
Website: https://gcil.org.uk/
Facebook: Take Ctrl North Lanarkshire | Airdrie
In addition, there is also the local Carers Centre in North Lanarkshire, who can support you in relation to your Adult Carers Support Plan and the needs that you might have as an unpaid carer for your son. Their contact details are:
Lanarkshire Carers Centre
Ground Floor Left Princes Gate
60 Castle Street
Hamilton
ML3 6BU
Tel: (01698) 428090
Email: info@lanarkshirecarers.org.uk
Website: https://lanarkshirecarers.org.uk/
There is also another local organisation that provides support to people in North Lanarkshire that might be usful to connect with. They are:
North Lanarkshire Disability Forum
42 Civic Square
Motherwell
ML1 1TP
Tel: (01698) 275 710
Email: info@nldforum.org.uk
Website: https://www.nldforum.org.uk/
I hope that helps but do get back i touch if thereās anything else that you need.
Many thanks,
Mark
Cannot thank you enough for your help and the other gentleman all the information you have given me will help so much really grateful.
Laura 
Hi Mark
Spoke to LA for an explanation regarding cost of Ā£8000 for hot tub being taken from direct payment every year.
They advised that they are seeing purchases like these as āCAREā provided in other ways.Just wondered what your thoughts are?Is it something you are familiar with?
Thanks Laura 
What does that mean? Is that a quote from them?
They came up with a figure of Ā£8000 to purchase a hot tub no idea if they had even looked at them or if it was just a price off the top of their head.
If it was a one off cost then would have considered it because budget has an underspend due to my sons ill health. I was informed it would be Ā£8000 every year ftom his budget,and it would belong to LA when I asked why payment every year was informed that they are seeing purchases like these as āCareā provided in other ways. Was just wondering if you had ever came across a situation like this .
Thankyou very much .
So they want you to buy one hot tub a year? That will then belong to the LA? Sorry I donāt think I understand!
The social worker suggested the purchase of a hot tub from my sons budget as on his support plan it states he has acute hypotonia as part of his condition.His outcomes outlined taking short breaks with the use of a hot tub at a lodge and was proven to have improved his physical health.When she asked a senior social worker if this was possible she was told it was a possibility.She then emailed me a copy of a report which stated that if the hot tub was purchased at a cost of Ā£8000 this would be taken from his budget on a permanent basis (from budget every year) and that LA would own the hot tub and I would be responsible for running cost maintenance etc.Before I agreed to anything I asked why would it be a permanent cost every year and as mentioned in previous email was advised that they would be classing the cost of certain items as Care.I advised her I could not agree to that as I am unaware of the budget amount my son will be given and that I donāt know how much support he will need in the future.Its the bit about the tub being classed asāCareā I donāt get .
Sorry for the lengthy explanation.
Thanks, I needed the explanation. And like you, I donāt get it. I have absolutely no idea why they would take the money every year for a one-off purchase. Are they thinking that the budget must be the same every year, therefore if there is an expense one year, there has to be the same expense every year? Could that be it, insane as it sounds? Like you I have no idea what the significance of categorising the hot tub as ācareā is. I have heard that finance departments are getting involved in social care decisions too much. Maybe the finance people have a classification system in place or something, I donāt know. Iām wildly guessing.
Sorry to bother you with all this I just canāt get my head round it.
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.
Itās interesting for me to hear about other peopleās experiences. Iāve learned a lot from people on this forum.
Hi josh
Was wondering if you could possibly email a copy of the sheet you done for planning/outcomes.
No rush just think it will be very useful.
Thankyou
Laura
Hi Laura
Sure, if you direct message me your email address I can send them over. I donāt think I can post documents to the site.
Josh
Not sure if you want me to reply to this email with my email address 
thanks
No, didnāt mean that. Iāll try and send you a direct message so you donāt post your email publicly.
Hi Laura,
Many thanks for the posts and thanks to Josh for his posts as well. I think you have raised a number of important questions about:
-
How do Local Authorities calculate the amount that needs to go into an SDS budget?
-
When you purchase something that is going to last a number of years, such as a piece of equipment, how does this affect the annual SDS budget calculation?
-
Who is responsible for the on-going costs associated with the piece of equipment that has been bought?
If I start by looking at the SDS Statutory Guidance, there is a section that refers to the purchase of equipment. This states:
āāA direct payment arrangement means that control and responsibility passes to the supported person. This means that ownership and responsibility for arranging the maintenance of the equipment or adaptation can pass to the supported person. In some instances it may make sense for responsibility for maintenance to rest with the authority. The key priority should be to make use of the user/supported person agreement to discuss and clarify questions of maintenance, ownership and issues such as the donation of any equipment to the authority, NHS, provider or fellow citizens after it is no longer required.āā (p.22) (my emphasis)
For me, this highlights the possibility that questions around ownership and maintenance might differ depending on each personās individual circumstances. There might be other factors that need to be considered, such as:
- Can the supported person afford to pay any maintenance costs?
- Would any extra cost be considered part of a personās āCare Chargeā?
- Does ownership suggest responsibility for maintenance?
- Could the equipment be re-used in the future by someone else, which might highlight the benefit of the Local Authority maintaining ownership?
So the SDS Statutory Guidance is helpful, but it doesnāt provide a definitive answer to your question.
The other part of your question relates to the future calculation of the SDS budget, after the piece of equipment is purchased. If I look at the SDS Statutory Guidance, this states:
āāThe available funding should be allocated in a way that is transparent, fair, equitable and sufficient, across all communities and for all individuals. In practice, local authorities and partnerships should have clear and equitable systems and processes in place to involve people in the development of their budget; and to calculate and provide people with sufficient levels of budget to enable them to meet agreed personal outcomes and lead full and meaningful lives.āā (p.55) (my emphasis)
So it is important that you understand how the Local Authority have worked out the SDS budget to enable you to pay for the support that meets your sonās identified needs. They should be able to explain how they have calculated the ārelevant amountā.
Once you have the Hot Tub, this presumably is meeting some of your sonās identified needs. The Local Authority seem to be saying that each year, the Hot Tub meets the equivalent of Ā£8000 worth of support. Whilst this might have been the initial cost (and of course there are on-going annual costs which may vary over time), is it accurate and fair to calculate the annual cost on this basis?
I think there are a couple of things you could do:
- Ask the Local Authority to provide a breakdown of how they have calculated the cost of your sonās SDS budget, under Option 1 as a direct payment.
- Ask how the SDS budget relates to meeting the identified needs that your son has
- Ask how any need that has been identified for you or anyone else that is an unpaid carer, has been included in the calculation of the SDS budget
I think your query has come at a very important time, as there is due to be a new SDS Standard (Standard 13 on Direct Payments), published very soon. Your example might add to the content of the Standard.
I am copying Rhiann McLean and Donna Murray in, as they have been involved in drafting Standard 13 and might be interested to hear about your experience.
Many thanks,
Mark
@DonnaMurray @Josh
Hi Mark
Thankyou for this information many questions I am needing to ask,if only I could get someone to call me back that would be a help.
5 weeks of phoning and left very frustrated.
Been told review will be March and Lewis will be allocated someone to do this not sure when.
When I enquired why the hot tub cost would be taken every year from Lewis budget was informed it is classed as ā Careā.Been a really difficult few weeks feel very unsupported.
Thanks for taking the time to message me appreciate that.
Laura
1 Like
@MarkieBoy That looks like a good way of trying to figure it out. I didnāt really think about how costs of a one-off item might be spread. But it sounds more like a repeated cost rather than a spreading of the cost from what Laura was saying. Asking for a breakdown as @MarkieBoy suggests seems like a good first step. 2 and 3 should already be detailed in the support plan I would have thought.