Thanks for this response and it’s what I thought but the fact they are doing it always causes some doubt. Apart from being unsure if I understood I am glad I’ve posted it as it highlights another case of this happening.
Totally disgusting underhand behaviour and like you I have no intention of allowing them to do this to me. I’ve no doubt it’s going to hold things up but they can’t get away with this! I’ve read your responses on the original question and your own experience to fight it and I do appreciate your advise and the fact you took them on and won.
Things just shouldn’t be like this and I’m sure unfortunately some people will fall for it.
No probs. I’m glad you posted. I should go through the forum and count up the number and type of problems people have had with direct payments. SDSS will of course have access to a much larger dataset as they have other routes of communication with DP users other than this forum I presume. I wonder if they would consider gathering statistical information on what problems people are having. @MarkieBoy
I guess FOI requests to local authorities could collect some data on this by implication, but I can’t really ask “How many people did you bully into accepting a managed account in the last 12 months?” I could ask “How many DP users have a DP account in their own name set up by them and under their total control, how many have a managed account set up by the local authority and how many have a pre-paid card?”
Fantastic idea Josh I couldn’t agree more and it’s so good there are people like you willing to spend time on things like this.
They are working at times with vulnerable people who may be at a very low point in their lives and looking for genuine support. In my opinion they are being given a free reign to use very underhand tactics to manipulate them if an end is not put to this type of behaviour. SDS is certainly not a big pot of money for the LA to control in a deceitful manner. As said if it can be identified how much of this is happening it may raise a red flag for it to be formally addressed.
It’s interesting. I don’t think it’s about money at all. In general DPs are a cheap extremely good value way to deliver social care. I think it’s about control. I don’t think LAs can mentally cope with giving up control of public money to ordinary members of the public who might have a limited understanding of the responsibilities involved.
Additionally, as you say, many DP users will be very vulnerable and need support not opposition from the LA. Direct Payments is extremely under-litigated. Even in England there is very little case law on DPs, and in Scotland practically nothing as far as I know. I need to do another check for cases. Even my case did not get to court because the LA caved before the hearing, so that gets no publicity. I wish I had insisted on a court hearing anyway just to get a judgement in black and white that other people could use. So LAs have very little fear of enforcement and therefore don’t really need to know the law and can make up nonsense rules of their own. Uncertainty about the legal position is high. Contrast that with something like planning law, LA’s know the law really well because they get wealthy developers challenging their decisions all the time and there’s loads of case law. Uncertainty is relatively low.
Oh right I didn’t know that about the financial facts so why it’s probably not the handing over of the money aspect. I fully agree about the control I’ve felt that from the start I was expected to have absolutely no mind of my own and be taken over with all decisions made for me and why them trying to change option 1 has got me so angry. There is no chance of them forcing me to take a managed account but I do have concerns about vulnerable groups of people not so strong or not wanting to question. Very much about who holds the purse strings has the power.
I can understand your frustration about the court and it’s what happens most of the time in order to keep things hidden. I also understand why you didn’t keep going forward because at the end of the day who needs all that stress you just want to get on with your life not be in constant conflict.
Accountability is never easy to get but at least you took it as far as you could and is very encouraging to know it can be done.
The new SDS Standard 13 on Direct Payments may offer some clarity on this (I’m still not sure when this will be published but it ought to be soon), but ultimately LAs have taken their own approaches when it comes to how they administer and deliver the funding for direct payments.
My own LA (Perth and Kinross) tried to bring in pre-paid cards a few years ago but the tendering process wasn’t successful. As a result, all DPs are still paid into designated bank accounts that the LA have no control over. However, I think we are in the minority with managed accounts and pre-paid cards increasingly the norm. The lack of a consultation process around these types of changes is also very frustrating, although I do know that Borders SDS Forum challenged the LA’s intention to introduce pre-paid cards without consultation via a Participation Request under the Community Empowerment Act.
Clearly there will be some people who are quite happy to have a managed account - just as there are people for whom minimal control and Option 3 is preferred - but it is all about people having choice about how their social care funding is delivered, and IMO this should include how the money is paid to you.
I agree with @Josh that much of it is about control and risk aversion, when it should be about empowering people to be responsible for their own care, if this is what they wish. @Josh has been there and done it, so he will be able to keep you right regarding how to go about challenging this. I agree that FOI requests can be a good way of gathering data/info to support your arguements. The SDS Standards are also useful to reference: Self-Directed Support Framework of Standards (2024) | Care Inspectorate Hub
Thank you for your input and sharing your experience. I’ve received some very good information from yourself and josh which is empowering.
My SDS journey has taken forever with all sorts of obstacles but one thing for sure is I’ve always been option 1 although they did try and muddy that a bit they never stated outright things would be paid differently until the very last moment which I’m sure is partly to cause another delay but it’s blatantly clear now it’s also a big part about control. I did wonder that but thought no surely people in such trusted positions wouldn’t try and take advantage of people and want to control them. I felt I must have got things wrong in that I wasn’t understanding what option 1 meant but now I see I’m not alone in that thought about control I feel stronger to insist it’s handled the way as was agreed.
It’s s absolutely disgusting the things that go on and the fact some people may think they have no say in the matter and can be manipulated. It sure doesn’t feel about empowerment or self directed and getting figures on who else feels that way and that this has happened to would be interesting.
I am still battling regarding the hot tub which definately fits in with my sons outcomes on support plan.
It has been going on for months now even though it has been agreed by his physiotherapist,mental health nurse that this definately meets his outcomes.I never thought there would be so much stress for things under direct payment option 1.
Just wanted to update you all.
Thanks
Hi Laura,
Thank you for your post. I’m really sorry to hear that it’s taking so long to get the hot tub in place.
You mentioned that your son’s Physiotherapist and Mental Health Nurse have supported the buying of the hot tub. Do you have agreement yet from your son’s Social Worker? If they are waiting on someone else’s decision maybe they can let you know who is going to consider this - is it a Manager or a Panel - and is there any way that you can get in touch to ask that this be agreed as soon as possible?
I’m not sure if you’d have enough money in your son’s current SDS budget to cover the cost of the hot tub, or if you’s need additional funds? If you already have enough, this would make the process a little quicker and you just need the go ahead.
Maybe you could include the hot tub in your son’s Personal Outcomes Plan as well, so anyone coming along in the future knows that this has been a relevant spend to help meet your son’s needs and outcomes.
Hi Mark
Thanks for your reply.
Have been informed by social worker he now needs to build a case he will require medical evidence. I have contacted mental health nurse and physio and they are both happy to submit evidence.Hopeful that they will help.Plenty of money in his budget to cover the cost .
Have been told it will need to go to a meeting to discuss I am trying to now find out when this will take place and who will be attending the meeting.
Such a long process and have felt very stressed with it all but did receive some very useful information from SDS helpline to help me with this.
Thankyou.
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